@jeroenpraat @paulfree14

I used Google Drive because: I knew how it worked, it was already part of my work flow and I didn't need to do any research. It is only for MY Surveys. and MY document. Not the project's. MINE.

I set up a discord because while working on this my brain started rolling about how I could use discord to host the kind of meeting _I wanted_ to host. I knew how it worked, I don't know how any of the other options work.

@jeroenpraat @paulfree14 If either of you had bothered reading ANY of the documentation, any of the other discussions, it's been ABUNDANTLY CLEAR, that at the meeting we will be discussing how to build infrastructure on as much open source shit as possible, with people who have the energy and know how to.

I DO NOT have the MENTAL energy to do all of that on my own.

And you all need to fucking back off if you're not even offering to help.

@jeroenpraat @paulfree14 Free software comes with a mental COST, which makes it Not-Free for people with limited mental energy.

@maloki 'Free software comes with a mental COST':

For you. For me proprietary software comes with a metal cost.

I'm also find it extremely odd why someone who dislikes FOSS that much wants to fork a FOSS project. Are you sure you are the right person to lead a fork?

@paulfree14

@jeroenpraat I AM NOT LEADING THE FUCKING FORK.

Now, I'm going to kindly ask both of you to fuck off. @paulfree14

@maloki
Good to know.

Not very kindly communicated, but I respect your request 'to fuck off'.

Have a nice day.

@paulfree14

@maloki @jeroenpraat @paulfree14 its always dudes

@Laurelai Which part of 'nb' on my profile reminds you of a 'dude'?

@paulfree14

@jeroenpraat @maloki @paulfree14 If you don't like the tools of the kitchen perhaps you can take your appetite elsewhere and make your own meal.

@craigmaloney
what you're sayn is this:
if you don't like the status quo, fuck off.
@jeroenpraat

@paulfree14 @jeroenpraat If you choose to accept it that way, then that's what I'm saying.

But what I'm really saying is complaining about how the meal is prepared is not kind to the host. And if you're worried about the preparation then perhaps you shouldn't be at a restaurant in the first place.

@craigmaloney
It's not polite to complain, but it's not very kind of hiding feedback and being dishonest instead.

@jeroenpraat

@craigmaloney
the tone could be choosen different, that's for shure.
But would also not very kind of making it about the tone, rather then the arguments that the person tried to express.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing

@jeroenpraat

@paulfree14 @jeroenpraat Perhaps it's a cultural thing; the way I read it was that your belief as that the project should grind t a complete halt until all of the infrastructure for handling communications could be completely FLOSS.

Nevermind that most of the folks involved with the project were part of the Mastodon project and already had Discord accounts; thereby providing a low-friction place for this to get organized.

That's akin to stopping the protest because you don't like the markers..

@craigmaloney
>that the project should grind t a complete halt until all of the infrastructure for handling communications could be completely FLOSS

lol. I have even trouble to believe that you even believe that.
Right now, we're comunicating. So your claimed reasoning is just by that already proofen wrong.

So discourse could just start from where everyone can participate in and has already an acc.
within the fediverse.

@jeroenpraat

@paulfree14 @jeroenpraat Please re-read your postings to Maloki and tell me in all honesty that wasn't what you were suggesting. Be honest with yourself.

I'm stepping out of this conversation because now we're picking apart perception and no good can come from telling others how things were perceived.

Wishing you every kindness.

@craigmaloney
I have read through it, and still understand it different then it seems to be resieved.
If I made myself look like an asshole, well then it's like that. As soon as I understand a feedback I try to adopt it to my behaviour.

Where I've been wrong is by creating the asumption and by pressure of claiming it's not a big deal to ask for help.

@jeroenpraat

@paulfree14 @craigmaloney Do I have something to add? Not really, cause this is a very odd conversation.

- Someone on a FOSS project asks if people can use FOSS tools when doing FOSS stuff.
- They even offer a solution, without the need to setup or host something.
- But people get angry, only because of this question. They probably can't handle criticism.

For me it's clear that this fork is something I can't embrace yet. First the right people please or maybe another fork.

@jeroenpraat @maloki @paulfree14 And if you're so hell-bent on others holding your own standard perhaps you could offer to host this at your cost?

Or is this the same magnanimous crap where one complains that they can't meditate because the cushion isn't the right color.

@maloki But you could ask. I had setup a wiki for you in minutes.

@paulfree14

@jeroenpraat What the fuck would I even use a Wiki for?

I'm Hosting a Meeting to invite everyone who said they were interested in Forking off Together.

That's all I'm doing, I have made NO DECISIONS about the projects infrastructure. That's why I haven't set up a Project Server, I've set up a meeting server.
I've not set up a new platform to host the Projects Documents on, Because there are non. There's only MY documents.

@paulfree14

@maloki I was not talking about the meeting, but about the Google documents.

It doesn't matter if it are *your* documents. You want to convince a FOSS community and FOSS devs to make a FOSS forks, so it's common sense to use FOSS for that, even if it are your own.

@paulfree14

@maloki You calling us/me an extremist? That's not very nice of you.

I didn't see you asking for setting up a bridge and if I did see I would ask you to not use Discord at all.

@paulfree14 @brainblasted @brainblasted @tastytea

@maloki
(sometimes, changing the tone helps to get listend)

I didn't offerd to help with the bridge, because I do not want it. I do not want to participate in feeding content into proprietary software in a way that makes ppl just stay on them.
If the bridge would help some to patlrticipate who can't otherwise, though I'd be happy having the bridge.

@jeroenpraat @brainblasted @brainblasted @tastytea

@paulfree14 Then you too, can F* off.

Again, you're obviously not paying attention to the details of this ONE Meeting.

I've put A LOT of effort into not making decisions on behalf of this project. And I feel like you could appreciate that, instead of just throwing shade my way.

Do you have any idea what a giant job I've done? It would've probably been 5 times as big if I had had to research new places to do things that I already knew how to do.

@paulfree14 For Only One Single Meeting.

What was most cost efficient for me? Doing what I've done.

@maloki
'hey, I'd like to have a meeting that is inclusive as possible. Who can help me set it up?'

...wouldn't be a big deal to ask this.
If you asked this, sry, I missed it.

@maloki
about offering help:
thought I'm maybe not a good example here, since through my unsable situation I simply can't offer much help, but the reason I even didn't looked really into what you're doing and where I could offer support was seeing comunication happening via google/google docs.

If it's not nessasary, I even don't read anything that is shared in that way.
@jeroenpraat @brainblasted @brainblasted @tastytea

@paulfree14 @jeroenpraat Not going to CC Maloki here since I think that was a clear "stop @ ing me."

But the vibe I got is that the ppl who responded to calls to help up to the point of building anything lasting are sending notes from diff "home" platforms. Hoodie's stuff is on Medium, Maloki's on Gdocs, some on instances that block each other, etc.

Doesn't mean they hate FOSS projects. Just means their note-taking isn't already on all available ones. (1/2)

@paulfree14 @jeroenpraat For ppl not contributing code, learning w/e FOSS chat we decide to use in the meeting may be the availability limit & demanding ppl learn one FOR the meeting may take up that fluency slot for something that may not get chosen by the group.

Because none of the ppl setting up the initial conversation in the Discord are deciding what we do going forward. We won't know what we're doing & what that means we need to learn until we talk & decide. (2/2)

@Cobalt Hi. If you look to this toot: https://todon.nl/web/statuses/100288704069592040 , you will notice that I only wrote that I noticed that Maloki did put documents on Google Drive. In her reply (https://elekk.xyz/@maloki/100288714852126810) she called me (and @paulfree14) extremists. That's the moment the tone flipped to the other side. I also never told anyone that they hate FOSS. I (and Paul) only explained why we think FOSS should always be used for FOSS projects.

And this is the moment I also stop following this thread.

@tastytea To be honest, when I saw all those stuff on Google Drive/Documents I was not very motivated because of that. Also I wanted to give Gargron a bit more time.

@paulfree14

@tastytea
from my experience, the more people you add to a plattform the more difficilt is it to switch.
The most easiest is it to at least try to start from the beginning with free software.

@jeroenpraat