joop is a user on todon.nl. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse. If you don't, you can sign up here.

I came across this link elsewhere: shirky.com/writings/group_enem

It's about group dynamics, especially on the internet, and what you need to be able to overcome the tendencies of groups to self-destruct.

it's from 2003, so there's some outdated references, but it's wild how accurate it still is.

@joop

I disagree a bit about the core group. A lot of examples he uses are still around but they're not in the best shape. If it's too hard to become a member of a core group or even engage with them, new users won't come.

joop @joop

@dulcet I'm not entirely sure I follow? mind expanding on that?

@joop

You'll have to tell me what part needs expansion.

@dulcet Fair enough; you say "if it's too hard to become a member of a core group or even engage with them, new users won't come", but I'm wondering how that fits in with, frankly ridiculously sized sites/communities like reddit or facebook, where it seems someone is lording over everyone else without even being able to make out their voice.

Also I've had a long day so things are difficult to understand atm.

@joop

It fits in quite well. FB and Reddit are big because the barrier to entry is low, moderation is (generally) okay, and core members don't have any special rights and are hard to distinguish from group newbies. Group newbies doesn't mean topic newbies. But one WP debate with a well-connected editor can drain all desire to ever improve it again. Core groups can become cliques.